Student-driven deep tech innovation at Eindhoven University of Technology
In this episode, we explore student-driven entrepreneurship and innovation with Bart van Grevenhof, Business Development Manager at Eindhoven University of Technology. Bart shares insights on fostering innovation through deep tech projects, the challenges students face in taking these technologies to market, and the role of industry partnerships.
If you are interested in entrepreneurship, deep tech, or university-industry collaboration, this episode is full of valuable takeaways.
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Transcript
Todd Davey:
Welcome everybody. The topic of today is Student-Driven Technology and Entrepreneurship. Specifically, we are going to be looking at the case of Eindhoven University of Technology and guiding us through that exploration process will be Bart van Grevenhof.
Bart is a senior Business Developer and of Student Entrepreneurship at the Eindhoven University of Technology. He is going to be bringing some insights from their work. Also, if you’re interested in training, UIIN offers quite a large suite of training programs. You can find them at uiin.org/training. These programs cover areas like entrepreneurship, strategic partnerships and impact.
Without further ado, welcome, Bart.
Bart van Grevenhof:
Thank you. Nice to be here.
Todd Davey:
It is really nice to have you along. Bart is a business developer at the Technical University of Eindhoven but specifically within The Gate tech start-up program. He is going to provide some insights into that.
He was previously also leading programs at the Amsterdam University of Applied Sciences. What I’m really excited about today is that we will be speaking to someone very practical. You are practically involved. Often, we speak to directors of programs and similar roles, but we are actually going to be speaking with somebody who is practically supporting the students on a day-to-day basis.
From that perspective, we are going to get some quite unique insights. I just thought you might introduce us to the concept of student teams and their role in fostering innovation at the Technical University of Eindhoven.
Bart van Grevenhof:
Absolutely. I think when I joined two and a half years ago, one of the first things I recognised, by the way, was when I told my mom: “I am going to join the Technical University of Eindhoven”. And the first thing she knows is: “Hey, that is the place with the student teams”. It is what we are well known for.
Basically, it is a concept where students organise around self-chosen challenges. That challenge can be anything from developing a car or developing a technology. And they organise around that in a non-profit way, although it is most similar to a study association where students rotate and come in.
Giving examples always work best. In this case it is Team Daedalus. They work on building a drone with solar panels on the wing that can charge by day and survive the night, basically. They work on building that technology, that drone and that plane, and they can attract as many students as they want as volunteers, learn how that is organised, look for sponsors, etc. Basically, they learn how to be a 21st-century engineer while doing that.
We have about 24 of those teams currently active. We see a lot of nice demonstrator’s products coming out of that, but also a lot of new innovation.
Todd Davey:
I am interested to know a little bit more about this program. Perhaps you can explain to us the vision for the program and then step us through how it works in practice.
Bart van Grevenhof:
It all started, and that is familiar to other universities, with competition teams who compete, for example, in a solar challenge or a university racing challenge. That model of teams who develop, for example, a car to participate in this kind of events, was applied to a broader set of challenges.
For example, there was a professor here who developed this interesting technology of iron fuel where iron is used as a basis for heating or preserving energy. There was a group of students who was going to organise around that. What happens then is that in that student team, they start working on, “What do we have to do to take this technology to the next level?”.
They are working on like certain sprints, such as “Can we build a demonstrator?”, “Can we build a working prototype?” The program for us is a lot about supporting these teams. That is supporting them with coaching, supporting them with, for example, how to organise as a team with recruitment.
Self-organising teams and their foundations are run by the students themselves. Our role as The Gate, as the university and as a business developer is looking at, “What are you developing” and “How do you want to continue that after you reach a certain point”. Within a student team, sometimes you cannot continue, and you still want to make real impact with what you invented.
That’s where the business development comes in, where we take it over and support and help them spin out of those teams.
Todd Davey:
Essentially, the vision seems to be that, generally speaking, engineers or tech-focused people are often really focused on the prototype. What you want them to be thinking about is beyond the prototype, in how can you test this or how could you find a market for things like that.
Bart van Grevenhof:
Exactly. From the student team, and even more while they are still a student team, the vision is basically challenge-based learning and the most extreme version of it, like self-directed challenge-based learning in an extracurricular setting. As soon as they have an idea or an invention that has the potential or they are really passionate about to take to society and scale, then it becomes basically our challenge.
We help them flip their mindset from where they were mainly tech push to considering the problem pool and what society, the problem owner, or a potential customer wants.
Todd Davey:
That can be quite challenging, especially with engineers, because they do love looking at the widget and trying to make it better. How do you achieve that?
Bart van Grevenhof:
One step back is that the student team also delays us a bit, because you would normally have a student with, for example, an idea and immediately tell them what you were going to talk about. The student team gives them the option to lean into the tech development first. And indeed, when we get to the point where they run that course and have something tangible, then we start supporting them. We start earlier with, for example, workshops on entrepreneurial thinking, and we start helping them also as an entity, to be ready to have a spin out. We want to plant that seed of, “What are you going to do next?”, “You are working on this project now, but what about in half a year, maybe even four or five years from now?” and “How can you be prepared and how can you also train yourself to think in that way?”.
That is where we start, but as soon as there is a real invention or a real idea, then we start working with them, for example, on thinking about enrolling in a student competition or a startup competition to test and see if that is something that you are interested in. To make that transition and that mental switch from tech push towards customer pool, basically.
Todd Davey:
I would like to follow up about the next steps in the process that you guide them through. They are inventing something, and I really like the way you describe that: “We let them lean into the engineering or technical part of it, and then we work with them to market orientate and move through those steps”.
Could you step us through what that program might be or that support might involve?
Bart van Grevenhof:
For example, we have a team that is looking to develop the car of the future. The first thing to do, that is really tech-driven, is to think which technology we want to implement in the car.
The first nudge we have is when they are looking for sponsors for a car like that. We don’t promise them we have sponsors, but if you can show the value of why you are developing this, it might be easier to get a sponsor. That is the first place we can do that.
The other thing is that, being part of a student team is also connected to really being a student on the team and to studentship. As soon as they start leaving the team or thinking, “I’m going to miss this environment of the student team”, it is pretty flat hierarchy, it is fast iterating. “If I have any idea now, I can do that tomorrow”. That is also one of those points where you can say: “Hey, we have the Ready Program”. It is not focused on already product-market fit, but it is really focused on entrepreneurial thinking. That flipping mindset that we can introduce them to like, “Hey, wouldn’t this be something for you to join?”
And the third thing I would say is showing them the right role models: “Hey, what does a person with your skills who likes this kind of idea or who has this kind of idea that they want to continue on?”, and to introduce them to those and maybe to alumni who did the student team and spun out of it.
When you do follow this process, you start planting that seed, and start nudging that die-hard engineer, who is really proud of all the tinkering with technology that they do, to realise that {the selling part} is quite challenging, and to start making something technological that fits in the market or in society.
Todd Davey:
So almost giving them the opportunity to explore in terms of engineering, but then setting them a subsequent challenge, which is: “Are you credited?”, “Does it work and satisfy a need that exists in the market?”.
I want to unpack that, because one of the things that I am aware of with the program is the fact that there is a project that is developing, but you seem to spend quite a bit of time on the student teams, the individuals to develop their skills, and also their leadership abilities. Can you talk us through how that works?
Bart van Grevenhof:
Most of the leadership development and the skill development is done by the students themselves. At the foundations, the student teams are autonomous, and they are the ones looking, and way more successful than us, for funding and collaborations. They are really leading the charge in their own development and seeing, “Hey, this is where I need to learn. This is what we need to do as a team”.
But it is true that we can help them. We see some common denominators throughout the year, because of the rotating teams, so we can offer them trainings. That is part done by Innovation Space, who basically do the student team support on a day-to-day basis, and as The Gate, we try to help them more on, “How are you as a foundation ready to support a spin out?”, “How are you ready as a student to spin out or to take these entrepreneurial talents somewhere else?”. That is where we jump in.
Todd Davey:
When it comes to that sort of process, as they might be thinking about creating a spin out, what sort of support or coaching do you have at that point?
Bart van Grevenhof:
We focus on kind of three things. The first thing is similar to what a KTO does for a university. These are foundations run by students and alumni of the team themselves. It is also important to think about, “How do you support as a foundation an idea spinning out?”, “Do you have your IP covered?”, “Do you have, for example, partnership agreements?”. But also, having deal terms in place, their mechanism. If you have 70 students on the team and everybody wants to spin out, that is quite a short runway or a steep funding challenge. How do you arrange those things? That is where we tried one-on-one talks, especially with things like showing them where the need is and trying to give them an understanding without having them to do a whole innovation management master at all. It is basically demand-driven.
The other thing we do is, when they have a concept, a technology or even the early stages of a problem-solution fit, they can use the same incubation programs and early-stage incubation programs as researchers use, that we co-organise here in the region of the Brainport together with other partners.
We start onboarding them as business developers, on student entrepreneurship, regular coaching, introducing them to a community of other really early-stage student startups. It is not exactly like a cohort-based pre-incubator, but it serves the same purpose.
The third thing is that it is really individual-based. Students don’t always spin out with an idea, but we are looking for entrepreneurial talent within this pool of students to connect to other startups or to connect to university spin-outs.
Todd Davey:
How do you scout your entrepreneurial students or entrepreneurial talent potentially? And then going through that process of teaming up, it sounds like it is very much self-selecting, but I guess you provide some sort of platform or format for that to happen as well.
Bart van Grevenhof:
We try to do that as much as possible. The first thing is that, when we are looking for talent, the one thing we don’t do is going to people who are really passionate about technology and really see themselves as technology-driven or technology developers, confront them and say: “Now you have to study and become a business person”. We are not in the business of changing what people are passionate about. What we do is give them an understanding of how they, as a tech-driven person, can start an initiative, and find people in their environment.
What we also try to do is ask students to sign up with us, both when they are looking for somebody or when they want to join somebody. We are in the early stages of this, but one of the lucky things we have at the moment is a former chairwoman from the University of Tilburg, who ran the student business club there. We try to make those connections with a more business-minded university. We have the Fontys University close by, we also have a university of applied sciences with a business school and there is where we try to make those connections and those introductions. We know where the vacancies are, we know where the people are and we try to set up that first cup of coffee or “first date”.
Todd Davey:
Speaking of that, once you have a project or a team that is moving through the program and potentially they have something interesting, what do you then do in terms of finding funding? You also mentioned sponsorship, or linking them up with some of your partners. How does that process look like?
Bart van Grevenhof:
We tell them it is a process, it is not an event. It is not: “You suddenly think of something and then you spin out”. It is more like corporate venturing, where there is a team within a student team who is starting to champion the idea that eventually we will spin out.
The advantage is that it is non-profit and it is sponsorship-based, but they can start putting out feelers in the market, and, for example, participate in some competitions, get some early-stage funding, etc. The other advantage is that there are a lot of subsidies and grants here in the region, but also European, where you can participate. The partners or sponsors of the teams can be really interesting partners to team up with, start these projects on early feasibility studies, and make sure you hit the ground running as a team.
Looking for early-stage, bootstrapping money grants, those partnerships and a supporting environment, can make sure that, when the time time comes for them to spin out and to be on their own, they really have a fighting chance.
Todd Davey:
It sounds a little bit like a venture client model in the sense that, when you are looking at some of your partners, you ask yourself, “Are they going to be potentially the client, or could they be looking at some sort of investment in the company as well?”
Bart van Grevenhof:
Most of the time, they are either one of the supply chain partners, or a potential client. But lucky enough, we have a regional investment firm, which is called the BOM, in Brabant, and we work closely together with them to provide next-stage funding when the grant opportunities run out, amongst other things.
I think one and a half years ago, they launched a student-run venture capital fund. That is also a really nice opportunity for next-stage funding for these student teams, because most of them are involved in development and research savvy, R&D-heavy ideas that still have some way to go until they make it to the market, so they need some money to do that.
Todd Davey:
One of the things that you have as a distinct asset is the fabulous technology ecosystem around Eindhoven. I specifically wanted to talk about Brainport, Eindhoven. Perhaps you could just explain what that is and what makes it unique.
Bart van Grevenhof:
Eindhoven is in the south of the Netherlands, and it is just as far away from Amsterdam as from Antwerp and the German rural area. We are a metropolitan area with about like 750, 000 people.
The area is home to companies like ASML, Philips, which is the big company that started it all. And I think we are ranked like sixth or seventh in the world on patents per capita and are responsible for 12.5% of the GDP in the Netherlands.
There is a big economic driver behind it, and this environment is why these student teams and these student startups operate in it.
Todd Davey:
You mentioned that you link in with other institutions such as Fontys University of Applied Sciences, as well as Tilburg. How does that work? Can students from those universities, or their potential partners, also participate in the program?
Bart van Grevenhof:
I would say that my comment there is 50% ambition and wish, and 50% reality. But the thing we see most successful is, again, when students undertake that action themselves. We can top-down and try to organise all kinds of meetups and events.
I can give the example of one of our student assistants working here who is after work talking to some of these students, starting to say: “Oh, you should talk to this student or that student”. And when that meeting is there, with a little bit of beer, sometimes then you see that things are organically coming into play.
Todd Davey:
Given that obviously there is a high-tech focus and the program itself embraces deep tech, can you talk about the uniqueness of deep tech, as opposed to other verticals or focuses, for example, a social sciences-type project, consulting-type project… How does deep tech differ and what sort of requirements do you think it has in terms of support?
Bart van Grevenhof:
As you said, I started at the Amsterdam University of Applied Sciences and Amsterdam – especially the University of Applied Sciences – , is not really a deep tech environment. The first thing is that levels are obviously lower, so, the journey you have to undertake to get to the market, to get to a solution, is longer.
And when you look at the teams, 20, 22, 23, 24-year-olds, whether it is a regular student startup, the hill is already steep, but this one is a little bit steeper. The challenges here are, “How do you find funding?” And, as you need more funding, trusting yourself as an organisation, as a startup, is essential. The amounts of money we are talking about are bigger, so you need more trust from those who fund and finance you. I think that is the main thing going into it.
That is also where, for example, the student teams are a nice fit because, first of all, if you have a technology around TRL level four, the student teams can start thinking about it and, without risk and sponsorship, get it to a couple of next stages without really having to create any debt or having to lose any equity.
The experience they acquire, the credit and the trust they earn from the partners, together with having already two or three years of experience working on this technology, are things they can leverage in a VC marketplace against other start-ups, and that can help them really stand out.
I think that is what was recognisable talent for deep tech start-ups, but it is also where these student teams come into play and where they can help students overcome this doubt or lack of trust that they will be initially granted when they would have started in the start-up route right away.
Todd Davey:
We have some in our community who are in your position and are looking to support student start-ups. What advice would you give for those wanting to support specifically deep tech? You have mentioned some of the difficulties: the longer time frame or need for patents. How do you best support student teams going through that process?
Bart van Grevenhof:
Two things are essential here for us:
- Teaming up internally and having some support. Some of these student teams are even ignited by professors, PhD students and researchers so, of course, these student teams couldn’t exist without the knowledge base of the university or the connection to it. So, it is really important having really good connections with them and having them engage with the students.
- Engaging with the ecosystem. Student teams don’t only come to the ecosystem and organisations for sponsorship, they also come for advice. Some of these organisations are actually pretty smart, because they say: “We have a sensor or a chipset that we have been developing and we want to test in a real-life environment. Can you do that for us? Can we put this in your invention?” And, of course, there is something in it for them as well, because these student teams produce great data. Alumni are great for them as a potential workforce, but they also deliver a lot of context, knowledge, expertise, and a lot of network access that can help these student teams basically succeed in this area of deep tech.
Todd Davey:
There is a lot of linking and connecting in that process. If you had to describe what success means, such that at the end of the process you say: “Oh, that was a success”, how would you do it?
Bart van Grevenhof:
It is challenge-based learning, so the primary success is learning. Also, when students undertake a start-up journey and they don’t succeed, it is our inclination to say: “Okay, you tried” and try to be deliberative, “What are the learnings that you take along?”.
But if it was only learning, I wouldn’t have the role of Business Developer, I would be an entrepreneurship educator. We want these technologies to get to the market, we want them to provide new jobs, and we see that with some of the alumni that start to provide new jobs to other alumni.
We want our students to create a broader economical growth next to the companies like ASML. For us, success is multifaceted and it starts with learning, but there is definitely a societal impact, sustainable impact, and also economical impact in the reasoning.
Todd Davey:
What are some of the success stories that have been through the program and that ecosystem?
Bart van Grevenhof:
Some of them are from before I got here. I mentioned already iron fuel and the professor who started this student team based around the idea that you can burn iron and create fuel from that. One of the startups coming out of that team, called Team Solid, is Rift.
Their main aim is to decarbonise industrial heating by using iron as a fuel, and they got funding by, I believe, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. They are one story below me in the building where I am right now and I am always thinking they are almost too big to be here.
The thing that makes that kind of a success story for me is that they came from the student team. They got this professor who said: “Hey, there might be something in this iron field technology”. There is a start-up coming out of that, but the student team after that didn’t stop existing. They reinvented themselves and they are right now building and working on a technology that allows you to store hydrogen in iron pellets. Almost sounds like magic, but they reinvented themselves.
Todd Davey:
That is a fantastic story. What I love about it is the resilience, it is pivoting and maybe looking at something else while the team stays together and functions and profits.
We have a question from the chat: “In the Turkish entrepreneurship ecosystem, students wait to run their tech businesses after graduation. How is it in Eindhoven and are there any specific programs?”.
Bart van Grevenhof:
I want to say two things here. First of all: You go to the student teams and there you see that they get addicted to being in that kind of environment. We see some of them exiting the traineeships of big companies and we see them coming back. Within big companies, there are a couple of layers above you, it is not your direct impact, you don’t have the autonomy or that much direct input on the purpose of the company, and you see them flocking back.
We see that student-team alumni are more inclined. I cannot put that really in numbers to continue that right away, because they are like, “Hey, I like this environment! It is a fast-based environment, a fast-iterating environment”. The students who graduate without student team experience,
There is currently so much demand for educated engineers by ASML and those kinds of companies our region that there is a big opportunity cost of starting your own start-up versus having that first good paid job, leaving that dorm room behind, that is a pretty competitive thing.
Having an entrepreneurial experience during your bachelor’s or master’s, then taking that work experience and coming back to The Gate and the university in seven or eight years with that network and work experience, is a pretty positive outcome as well.
I think it is similar as in Turkey. It depends a little bit on the students, but I wouldn’t worry about it. Let them get the network, let them get the experience, and then have a good alumni network. Keep in touch with them.
Todd Davey:
Thank you very much, Bart. I have really enjoyed the chat today. It is always a pleasure to talk to you, but specifically about the student-driven entrepreneurship happening at Eindhoven University of Technology. Thank you, Bart, for your time today. And thank you to everybody for participating and coming along.
Ready for more?
Learn all about Impact Learning, an innovative educational approach that goes beyond traditional classroom teaching by immersing students in real-world challenges, and how it’s being implemented at the University of Amsterdam in our article Promoting Impact Learning at the University of Amsterdam: A bottom-up initiative.
Discover what are the key areas to transform in your university in order to harness innovation, cultivate adaptable leaders, and ensure that it not only survives but also thrives in a rapidly evolving global landscape with our article Catalysing change in universities: A guide towards an entrepreneurial culture.
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