Connecting academia, government, and industry for innovation

In this episode, we are joined by Nicholas Haskins, Chief Operating Officer of the New South Wales Smart Sensing Network, who will share how the NSSN bridges the gap between academia, industry, and government, to turn research into real-world impact.

From fostering partnerships to overcoming collaboration challenges, this episode is packed with insights on making innovation happen.

You can listen to the full interview in our podcast:

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Transcript

Sarah Jaber: 

Nicholas is the Chief Operating Officer at the New South Wales Smart Sensing Network, which we are going to be calling NSSN during this conversation. 

He joined the network in May 2018, where he is responsible for implementing strategy, driving growth, and managing the overall operations of the network. Over a 20-year career that spanned roles across three of the major universities in New South Wales (NSW), Nicholas brings an in-depth understanding of the higher education sector and research landscape, and finally, attune skills in university administration, stakeholder engagement, communications and research development.  

Nicholas, welcome and thank you for joining us. 

Nicholas Haskins:  

Thanks for having me, Sarah. 

Sarah Jaber:  

Of course. Maybe you could tell us a little bit about the New South Wales Smart Sensing Network to set the stage. What is it and what is its vision and mission when it comes to smart sensing in New South Wales? 

Nicholas Haskins:  

We are an innovation network set up by the New South Wales government. For those that are watching from around the world, the New South Wales government is in Australia and our capital city is Sydney. So, we are certainly one of the biggest states and we have a thriving innovation ecosystem. 

In that sense, we are parochially serving the state of New South Wales. We are an extension of the Office of the NSW Chief Scientist & Engineer, and we were established in 2016. We exist really to bring together universities, government and industry to translate the world class research that is happening in our universities and get that out into smart sense innovation and, hopefully, on a pathway to commercialisation. 

We are a consortium of the eight leading universities across New South Wales and the Australian Capital Territory. You might be familiar with some of our members, but I will quickly run through them. They are UNSW, the University of Sydney, Western Sydney University, Macquarie University, UTS University of Newcastle, the University of Wollongong and Australian National University. 

Sarah Jaber:  

As you were saying that it made me wonder, is this unique to New South Wales or is it common across Australia? Are there other innovation networks in New South Wales, apart from Smart Sensing? 

Nicholas Haskins:  

We are fairly unique in Australia in the sense of the structure and remit of the innovation networks. There are a few others that the NSW government has set up in very sector specific areas, like a defense innovation network, a decarbonisation network and a connectivity innovation network. 

We are unique in that we are a cross-cutting sector, since we are focused on the application of the smart sensing technology itself. But there is this sense in New South Wales that, from a government perspective, they do really want to see greater translation and greater university outreach. 

That is what we are set up to do. We have looked across the world and we are somewhat similar in Scotland to an organisation called Census. They are an innovation network set up by the Scottish government about, I think, 10 years before us, and they are doing great work in the areas of sensing and IoT (Internet of Things). So, a similar remit to us in Scotland. 

Sarah Jaber:  

Why smart sensing? What is that? 

Nicholas Haskins:  

That is a good question. It is an area that we are super excited about, but I would say that, unlike the other networks that exist in New South Wales that are sector specific, this is a sensing technology-focused network, very broadly defined. On any given day, we are working right across AgTech, MedTech, space, defense, smart cities… 

It is broad in that sense, but very much focused on smart sensing, which cuts into the worlds of IoT, AI, quantum… So, we have got quite a bit of play space, I would say, which is something that we enjoy. 

Sarah Jaber:  

Great. You mentioned that it is a consortium of eight universities, but can you tell us more around how does the NSSN foster partnerships between academia government, which you are also closely connected to, and industry? 

Nicholas Haskins:  

We like to have a foot in each of those areas and we act as a bridge between those three different sectors. We are quite proud that we can translate the language and the timelines that each of those areas work on and to really bring them together in concert to hopefully do some really fantastic things. 

As I said, we are an extension of the New South Wales government through the Office of the Chief Scientist and Engineer. We have that pathway into government, and we can open doors for our partners into government and hopefully even into areas of procurement and purchasing through there. 

Our team comes from industry, so we speak the language of interest to industry. We know what their drivers are, and we are housed within our university, so we have great access to researchers and to cutting edge equipment across our eight member universities. That puts us in a unique position to bring those three areas closely together and then broker great relationships. 

Sarah Jaber:  

Can you maybe give us an example of how you might identify a potential partner to work with or potential collaboration opportunity? Does it come through the researchers, the university, or are you maybe looking out and trying to find collaboration opportunities? 

Nicholas Haskins:  

We start with the pain point or challenge of the industry or government partner as a starting point. Unlike a business development team within a university, we don’t have a product to push out to the world. We start at the other end of the scale, with the challenge.  

Through our team, who are very well networked through industry and government partners, we arrange meetings with those organisations, to talk about what their challenges are and what smart sensing R&D might be able to do to give them a competitive advantage or to make their life easier. We then work with those industrial or government partners, through an iterative process of codesign, to identify what the research challenge is. Lastly, the research team, which is often multidisciplinary and multi-institutional, responds to that challenge. 

We think that is where our added value is. Industry partners can work with any single university. That is fairly a well-trodden path. We are able to pick the best researchers multidisciplinary from across institutions to really come up with an exciting solution that probably hasn’t been really thought of before. 

It is often along an iterative process, while speaking with industry partners, that we realise they sometimes don’t even know how to articulate the challenge they have in research terms. We then serve to translate that kind of challenge into a research question that hopefully our research team can answer. We have spent a lot of time mapping the capability across our network so we know what our, for want of a better word, library of research talent and capability is, so that when we have had that conversation with an industry partner, we can say, “Okay, here is the right researchers to get into a room, to have a conversation with you.” 

We then help to facilitate the conversation, that then leads to a commissioned research project. On the back end of that, we are also very well plugged into government grant schemes right across South Wales and Australia, so we can then bring in other funding mechanisms, on top of any commissioned research dollars from the industry partner.  

Sarah Jaber:  

I know it is applied research, but are you trying to get to the point where you can commercialise technologies? Or is that kind of where you step out? Or how does that pathway work? 

Nicholas Haskins:  

I love that question, because that is absolutely our role. We aren’t really interested in fundamental research. The conversations we are having are at that more applied end of the scale. Mid-TRL and upwards. I am assuming that the people listening here today are familiar with TRL. 

We are more interested in that mid-to-pointy end of the TRL conversation. In that respect we are taking R&D that is well developed in the lab and then applying it to the actual field needs of an industry or government partner and working with them to commercialise on from there. 

We are keenly interested in that, and some of our KPIs are wrapped around commercialisation outcomes, on licensing, on spinouts and on jobs created for New South Wales and Australia on the back end of the R&D innovation that we are producing. 

Sarah Jaber:  

Do you have an example that stands out for you that you would like to talk to us about? A successful collaboration or something that generated impact? 

Nicholas Haskins:  

I think the one I like to talk of the most was one of our earlier programs. It is an elegant example in that we, with that benefit of the long tail of R&D, can really see what the impact of this project was.  It is getting a bit long in the truth now, but it is a great example to tell. 

We started a conversation with the water utility industry in Australia. It was a conversation that first started with Sydney Water, the water utility organisation for the Greater Sydney region, about one of their biggest challenges, which was leaks and breaks in pipe infrastructure across their network. 

That is a huge problem in Australia, as you can understand, since we are a dry continent. It is not only a financial issue for the company, but also a huge environmental issue if we are wasting water. It is also very costly to dig up pipes without really knowing exactly where the problem is. So smart sensing had a real role to play there in coming up with new technologies that don’t necessarily involve penetrating the ground with invasive measures. 

Smart sensing can have a number of modalities that can tell you where a leak or break is in the pipe infrastructure without digging anything up. Whether that be ground penetrating radar or LiDAR or, in this case as well, quantum sensing, which is really frontier science. It was really exciting stuff. 

Sydney Water at the time had a modest budget put towards this. We sat down with them and identified what the challenge was in a scientific term. We then pulled in a fairly large cohort of researchers who might be able to address this problem.   

Over time, we refined the research program. We designed a range of work packages that cut across those areas: radar, LiDAR, quantum sensing, data analytics… a multi-disciplinary approach to the problem involving five different universities. As the conversation wore on, using the skill set that we had in the network and the role that we were able to play as a broker, we were able to bring in eight other water utilities across Australia, as well as some contract agencies that were working in this area. 

What started as a one-off conversation with Sydney Water with a small program of funding was able to snowball to a nine-company consortium. And in the end, it became a 3.4 million dollar package of R&D, because each of those organisations was able to come in and tip in a little bit more. 

What we also found was that when a competitor organisation came in, Sydney Water or others were able to tip in more, and it just snowballed from there. And that came down to a broker body, like the NSSN, being able to play that role of a disinterested broker, because bear in mind that we don’t have a stake in this, we don’t take any financial claim. We are funded by the government, so we don’t charge for the services that we provide. We are just bringing the right mix of people together. What we had in the end was four universities working on five different work packages with nine industry clients.  

It was a three-and-a-half-year work program. It really resulted in some great outcomes. Now, on the back end of that, we are able to measure year on year the millions of liters of water saved due to these technologies that now have gone into operation at those water utilities, as well as the dollars saved for those water utilities in not having to dig up ground where they don’t need to.  

It has also resulted in a spin-out company and various licenses around the world. So, it is a great success story, and I think it is a very nice example of the power of the NSSN. 

Sarah Jaber:  

Yes, that is a really nice example. Also, it demonstrates the role it plays in addressing local and regional or even national issues, as you mentioned with the droughts and not wanting to waste water.  

I wanted to dig in a little bit into what you said about the power of a consortium and the role that you play. You just shared an example of a success story and how it works. But I know, for example, in Australia, the universities tend to be somewhat competitive, especially when it comes to funding and demonstrating who is better in certain areas. 

I am curious to know if you face any challenges when it comes to these multistakeholder collaborations, whether it is competing priorities or different goals that they are trying to achieve. If so, how have you been able to navigate some of those?  

Nicholas Haskins:  

I have been involved in university networks roughly my entire career, and you are going to be pulled in different directions and have those competing priorities, no matter what. But I am proud that, through the NSSN, we have really been able to change the game, at least during the time that I have been with the NSSN, which is coming up on eight years. 

The power of an organisation like the NSSN is to demonstrate to universities that more can be achieved working together than working alone.  

There is always going to be that competition there, and it is a very friendly competition, which I think is great. When you have an organisation like the NSSN come along, where we have great buy-in from each of our members, not only from the researchers but also from the dedicated team of coordinators that plug us into those universities, as well as the leadership, they are all very much committed to and behind this. And generally, we see that people are willing to come on board for that. 

We are able to show, through the evidence of working through the NSSN, what we are able to generate when we work together. The solutions to the problems that we at the NSSN focus on are big grand challenges: net zero, natural hazards, smart cities, human health… I think it is clear to most people that not all the expertise in any of those areas is going to be all within one university. And we come along and say, “Look, there is a bigger piece of the pie for everybody if we take a collaborative approach to this and go after some of the big problems.” 

Sarah Jaber:  

Exactly. The power of many trying to solve these challenges. Thinking a bit around the future of the NSSN, what are the plans? Will stay this consortium of eight universities? Do you look to maybe expand with others? 

And I was wondering if you have industry partners that are, like, maybe strategic partners are also part of the consortium, or is that not is that more on a project basis?  

Nicholas Haskins:  

I will start with the last question first. We like to have that freedom to operate, that is why we actually don’t have industry members. We don’t want to have a company saying, “I am the only telecom that you should work with” or “I am the only logistics provider that you should work with”. 

We really want to be able to follow wherever there is a possible client with a challenge that we can solve for them. So, we really do work on a project-by-project basis. All that we ask when we bring an industry partner in is that they stump up some funding to solve the challenge that they have got, which I think is a really good value prop. 

There is no pay-to-play in terms of being in or outside the tent. If you have got a problem, then there is going to be a price to pay for solving it and we will help you get that problem solved. We are open to working with anyone, and I should just say that it is not just limited to Australian companies that we do work with, and we are very happy to work with international organisations or industry partners that might have a smart sensing problem that we know that New South Wales expertise can solve. 

We are decidedly focused on New South Wales, and that is for a couple of reasons. We are obviously funded by the New South Wales government and there is a remit to serve the taxpayer and the people of New South Wales and to really inject new ideas and new gusto into the New South Wales innovation ecosystem. 

We are not on a huge growth trajectory. We are quite happy with the membership that we have got, and we are a membership-based organisation which serves the needs of those members. That said, there is always talk that the first N in the NSSN could one day be national, and we are always open to that idea. 

There are other universities outside of New South Wales that would be natural partners or members of the network that have great strength in smart sensing, and we are very open to a future where that might be the case. 

Sarah Jaber:  

Definitely. Maybe building on that a little bit, you talked before about quantum sensing as more of a more novel approach. I was just wondering, in smart sensing technologies, what do you see in the future directions? How is NSSN staying at the forefront of these developments? 

Nicholas Haskins:  

We are very excited about AI, and I think that goes hand-in-hand with smart sensing. AI has always been a very big part of the work that the NSSN does, ever since 2016, before it was the huge behemoth that it is today. It is important to say that we are the smart sensing network, and not the smart sensor network. That is an important distinction to make, because smart sensing talks not only about the device innovation itself, but really the backend and the system that wraps around and feeds the sensor device itself.  

That is where a lot of our work is. It is in the sense of fusion. It is in AI, the data analytics that come off the backend of the sensor. When you think about what a sensor does, it detects the environment around it and delivers data. And it is really through this AI trend that we are seeing now that you are able to get those really great efficiencies or better decision-making from the data that the sensors are collecting. So, we are hugely interested in that space and exploring how we can invest more in it. 

I do think that over time, you are going to see that the NSSN becomes more and more an AI network. I don’t think that will necessarily change our name or our brand, but it is certainly going to take more and more of an emphasis in the work that we do and the solutions that we provide. I think it is hugely exciting to be part of this wave, at this point in time in the hype cycle, and it is hugely exciting for us. 

Sarah Jaber:  

Yes, I agree, it sounds exciting. Also, I think about what you said earlier around that you are not necessarily doing fundamental or discovery-based research, but by working with these technologies, you are somehow combining the two and staying at the forefront of some of the groundbreaking innovations, while still trying to push it forward to commercial application. So, it is a nice area to be in.  

I was wondering as well, when you talked about bringing in researchers from the universities, do PhD students get involved in the projects with the NSSN? So, you may be thinking about the role you are playing in training that next generation. 

Nicholas Haskins:  

Absolutely. I think, almost every project that we are on has PhD students. While our communications and the deal-making tend to go on involving a CI at an academic-salaried level, the research teams really do rely on the efforts of the PhD students and the wider research team. 

We are keenly interested in bringing forward the next generation of researchers that are coming into this technological space. ECR and MCR involvement is huge for us. When we speak with industry and government partners, they obviously like the star researcher, the senior researcher perhaps with a strong reputation, but right down into the project, you are really seeing that integral involvement of ECRs and PhD students, and that is helping to bring forward the next generation. 

What I am also seeing, and what I have seen throughout my career, is that, with each new generation of research, it comes an ever-greater willingness to look beyond that paradigm of “publish or perish”, that focus on publication, but evermore getting the importance of impact and a real thirst for spinouts and startups and enterprise. 

That is the kind of researcher that we like to work with, because they get what we do, and they are excited by seeing their research make it to market or to social impact. 

Sarah Jaber:  

Exactly. Impact is something we do a lot of work around. And especially with researchers at an early stage, it is so important for them to think about the impact their work can have. But I think this shift from, “Okay, I am a researcher, I have to publish papers” is important, but it is not the only thing. It is about seeing your work in action. 

I think going back to that example you shared, if you are working on that, and then you are seeing the impact you are having in your region, it can be really rewarding. 

Nicholas Haskins:  

It is interesting, because there is a term that we don’t use in Australian universities but is very common in European universities. I spent a period of time working at Maastricht University in the Netherlands, and that word is valorisation. We don’t use that here in Australia, but I think it is a nice term, and it talks about creating value from the work that research does. 

Now, for almost every researcher in Australia, your work is being funded by the taxpayer, by the people of Australia, and seeing and creating value from that research is ever more important. And that is not just for dollars for a company. It can be value in terms of the way that a government provides its service to its citizens or for the environment. 

But I think that focusing ever more importantly on creating value from the research that we do is important. 

Sarah Jaber:  

I really like that you bring that up, because I completely agree. Every time I am working with an Australian university or not even Australian, non-European, we always introduced that term because it is also a lot more relatable. If you are a researcher, you can associate with valorisation maybe more so than with commercialisation, especially if you are in the social sciences, where you don’t necessarily see the commercial outcome of what you are doing. 

Maybe thinking about researchers and the next generations, I would like to end with this last question. What advice would you give to other organisations that might be looking to build these types of innovation ecosystems and multi-stakeholder partnerships? 

Nicholas Haskins:  

That is a good question. It is not easy, and that is probably what makes it worth doing. It is an exciting space to be in with the NSSN. We have written the rule book in many ways as we have gone along, and it is constantly evolving, it is constantly changing. What I am very thankful for is that we have a sponsor, a supporter in the New South Wales government through the NSW Chief Scientist Hugh Durrant-Whyte, who hasn’t really been very prescriptive in how we achieve what he has asked us to set out to achieve. 

He has basically said, “Here is the general direction I want you to head in and what I want you to achieve for New South Wales, you figure out the rest”. And that has been really liberating for us to say, “Okay, how can we do this?” and to try things out and sometimes fail, and to sort of experiment and see what the right settings are. 

So, I think number one is to not be daunted by the task, which, if it is worth doing, is probably going to be hard. The stakeholder engagement part is central to all that we do, since you are not going to do this alone. The whole point of it is to bring a whole bunch of people with very different expectations and cultures together and get them pointing in the true north direction and take them on a journey with you.  

It is about selling a story, and that is something that I have learned more recently.  

Focusing on KPIs and metrics is hugely important, because I think that it is going to make sure that you keep getting the funding and the resources to do what you need to do, but you are not going to keep the stakeholders unless you are able to tell a really good story about the work that you are doing. 

That is what captures people’s hearts and what gets them excited to head in the same direction as you. So, definitely telling and crafting the story very well is incredibly important in doing something like this. 

Sarah Jaber:  

Yes, exactly. I couldn’t agree more. I think storytelling is an area where universities can get better at, sharing the great stories that are coming out of them. Nicholas, thank you very much for your time and sharing your insights with us today, telling us more about the NSSN. It was a really nice conversation. 

Thank you again for joining us, and I wish you an enjoyable rest of the day in Sydney. 

Nicholas Haskins:  

Wonderful. Thank you for having me. 

Sarah Jaber:  

Goodbye. 

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