A cluster approach to engagement with Engineering the South East

In this episode, we are joined by Frances Hardiman, Head of the Faculty of Engineering Built Environment at the South East Technological University (SETU) and lead of Engineering the Southeast, an industry-led cluster in Ireland.

She will share how her team built strong connections across the triple helix, the key success factors behind effective collaboration, and why we should continue celebrating the small wins.

You can listen to the full interview in our podcast:

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Transcript

Madeline Arkins:

I am delighted to speak to Frances Hardiman today about the learnings from this specific cluster approach. To give a quick intro to Frances, she is the Head of Faculty of Engineering and Built Environment at Southeast Technological University (SETU), former Head of Faculty at IT Carlow, and she has a background in engineering, Frances, thanks so much for joining today.

Frances Hardiman:

Thank you. Lovely to be here.  

Madeline Arkins:

To start us off, Frances, could you tell us a bit for the uninitiated about your role as Head of Faculty and at the university, and how it connects to your work with external stakeholders?

Frances Hardiman:

Thank you, Madeline. We have quite a significant faculty here within SETU and the faculty, as you said, is Engineering and Built Environment, so it is quite comprehensive. There are a lot of departments here, and my role, partly, is the strategic development of the faculty itself.

It is supporting an operation side, working with the university in terms of governance and the executive management team, but also on the external strategy, on which I spend a lot of time. That includes working with the government in terms of national policy and developing policy but also working with industry and the regional sector within the Southeast. 

For me, this is engineering, and we are driving it. We are looking to support industry and their upskilling. We are looking to support new sectors that want to come to the region. So, for example, here in Ireland we have our development agency, the IDA, which will have new companies that want to come into the region, and they want us to help support on selling the region.

What is on offer here? What can we do in terms of education? How do we work with local industry? And the supply chain? I would have colleagues with similar roles here, but it would be common for executive colleagues here to work externally to the university and represent it on a wider scale.

And with that in mind, I also chair the heads of engineering group across the technological university sector. It is about sharing best practice and supporting each other as we navigate the landscape of higher education through a changing world at the moment. So, lots of different assets, which is what brought my interest to the cluster.

Madeline Arkins:

It is interesting as a Head of Faculty also, because I think the first impression upon seeing the name, you immediately see it as an internal operations role, but you really take an outward facing approach, which obviously speaks to your interest in this kind of cluster approach. 

Bringing us on to the topic at hand, the Engineering the Southeast Cluster, could you tell us about its mission? What are its key objectives, and how did it come to be?

Frances Hardiman:

Engineering the South East as a cluster started with a call in Ireland a few years back to advance clustering within Ireland. There was a funding, which came from a body called Enterprise Ireland, and 13 clusters were funded under a call named the Regional Technology Clustering Fund (RTCF).

The key thing was that these clusters had to be embedded in an educational sector, so it was embedded within the college, but they had to be industry-based and industry-driven because Enterprise Ireland is all about industry. Out of the 13 candidates, Engineering the South East was one of those. So, a call came out and we put the call forward for that.

Engineering the South East is all about engineering in the South East of Ireland, as the name indicates. There are other clusters that drive engineering down here in the southeast but have been developed to be very specific in terms of domain areas. So, there is Cyber Ireland, for example, which focuses on cyber security. There is another one called AgriTech Ireland, which specialises on the agricultural technology side.

So, the cluster can be discipline-specific or regional-specific and we decided to be regional-specific. My interest when I joined the college at the time was to know how the sector looked like here. Is it predominantly precision engineering? Is it pharmaceutical engineering? What is the ambition? What is missing? What is needed?

Working with different partners, the South East Energy Agency, our Regional Skills Forum here in the southeast and different bodies of the IDA and Enterprise Ireland, we formed this cluster and then formed a steering group. From those early days, we started asking ourselves those questions: “What do we need? What is an issue here? What is the deficit here?” And we found that the skills come up as a core area. That is how it started. So, it is one of 13 and it has had five years of funding, and we have just secured two more years of funding as well from Enterprise Ireland.

Madeline Arkins:

Fabulous. Just out of curiosity, do you have much contact with the other 12 clusters? Is there a kind of community of practice going on there?

Frances Hardiman:

There is. The connection mainly works through the cluster managers. For example, I am what we call a principal investigator of the cluster. So, I would manage and handle the contract of the cluster if you like. All the clusters have an educational and outreach manager, also known as a cluster manager, if you like, but they are educational and outreach managers, and those 13 connect. 

I have to give credit to Enterprise Ireland because it was new at the time, and it was something we wanted to explore, and we wanted to share common practice and best practice amongst the clusters. The people that run the cluster themselves, they connect often and frequently. That has been facilitated by Enterprise Ireland. They had a dedicated resource that would pull them together, have one-to-one, but also shared meetings… And that has been a massive benefit because you can talk about the pros and the cons, whether something works or not… So, there is a lot of work behind that.

I would then connect with the principal investigators to secure more funding from a university perspective or to talk about where is it going from a policy perspective or what is happening from an Irish context in terms of clustering… But yes, we are connected, and I think that is important. That is what has really helped over the last five years in the success of the clusters.

Madeline Arkins:

Maybe to zoom out a little bit, how would you define a cluster in this context? Because, as you said, clusters are quite prevalent in Ireland. But, of course, their meaning can be different across regions and across contexts.

Frances Hardiman:

The key thing about a cluster is that it is more than a network and it is more than a group, which can be confusing. There was a clear definition in terms of clustering, even when we went for the application. So, the key thing is the triple helix, that there is an educational body, a government agency and industry. So, there are three parties to this. And with that, we have a steering group and there is a clear direction for the cluster. You are working towards a goal. It is funded and, as I say, it is well managed.

In terms of funding sustainability, you can have members, the same as any other network. You can join, you can have a membership… That is because we want to be a self-sustaining cluster going forward. But the key thing is that the three agencies are involved in it. And that was a core criterion when we applied for the funding for a cluster. Without three, you wouldn’t have gotten funding, because you were seen as a network, you were seen as a group.

So, there is a formality to us. There is a contract with it in terms of funding, metrics, KPIs… that we have to feed back on. And that gives it accountability as well as an entity, if you like.

By connecting it with the university, it is not seen as a company. It is connected with the organisation in terms of bringing due diligence and how it runs and how it operates. We make sure that the finances are done well, and we are keeping our house in order, basically in terms of the cluster, but you will hear the word being used in particular areas. For example, you can go to the northeast of England, and you will see a cluster around offshore. There are clusters forming, but there are usually multiple stakeholders.

There is a mission, there is a reason for the cluster. There is an economic reason or a regional focus, more so than networking with each other.

We officially collaborate with each other and take competitors that do not sit in the same room to come together to work together for a regional focus, a regional goal, as opposed to, “Let’s have some drinks”. There is more to it than the networking side from my perspective, and from the perspective of the funding body as well.

Madeline Arkins:

Would you say that this mix of the networking perspective and the contractual arrangements that are put out in the beginning is what makes it a more effective tool for leveraging both regional and institutional strengths? Is there one key ingredient there?

Frances Hardiman:

The formality helps. When you are going out to develop a cluster and you are looking to get industry engaged and you are looking to get stakeholders, there are a lot of agencies involved, and when you are leveraging, you have to come with credibility. There is a common credibility, which is something that comes with being organised. It is something that brings formality and states what we are going to do, because we can be members of different organisations.

In a sense, you are bringing something of value. Something we talk quite a bit about is how this is adding value to the person or the region involved. I think formality helps, as well as being funded.

And so is networking, because we are looking for people to connect. But I feel that it is more than that, there is a deeper mission to that. You join and there is a mission here, and we want you to be part of that.

And, of course, there are different levels to that. Some people are two feet in and are very much involved. Others are on the periphery, and that is absolutely fine, because it has to be fluid to a certain degree. But I think it is formality that gives it another level, if you like, in terms of how it performs.

Madeline Arkins:

Yes, I am following. We have touched on this already, in terms of the principal investigators and the cluster managers. How does the cluster work in practice? How have you engaged industry and these eclectic mix of stakeholders in shaping the cluster?

Do you think it is an iterative process as the funding has gone on?

Frances Hardiman:

I think at the start, it was very important not to be overly prescriptive, but to take your time with it and be relaxed. So, when we first met, I remember the group meeting was about where we would meet, where we would have the first workshop to bring people together, because it is across a region of different counties, and if you go to this county, we might be focused on this, but if you go to that county, we could be focused on that. So, there is a bit of thought in the sense of how we give a regional approach and how we get people involved. It starts with developing what is the focus, what is the point of it, and getting buy-in and having clear pillars.

At the beginning, we identified the industry’s needs. It wasn’t my need; it was their need. It was first and foremost developed for industry. Three things came to mind at the start, and these are the pain, or pinch, points for industry. We need sufficient talent in our region to grow our companies and our industry, but we just don’t have it. When I am looking for people, I can’t find them locally. When I am looking for highly technical engineers in this case, it is such a competitive market that they are leaving the region, and I can’t compete with that. So, we need to grow more. We need to do more. We need to get more people into the sector.

So that was a real need that came out on day one. How can this cluster do that for us? Another one that came forward was around upskilling. The industry might say that there are loads of college programs, but there are none specifically for what they need and want right now. They know you have got your degree programs, but this is what they need. So, it comes down to asking, “What do you need?”. The key thing in pillar number two was considering what upskills they want. You tell me what you want as a cluster, not as a company. I don’t want one company; I want 10 companies. Tell me what you need, and we can start developing for that.

And I say we, the education providers across the Southeast, not just SETU, but also other education training boards, ETBs… can provide a solution. Between us and private training providers, we need to cluster and collaborate to provide a niche solution for you.

Focusing on the mission and where it is going. As we lay down our first few pillars at the start, we had a good foundation, we built from there, but our region has changed. Things are changing all the time, there are new developments, there is new government policy coming out, there is new funding coming out for particular areas like sustainability that companies can go after… and we want to support them on that.

So yes, we have to move with it as well. It is very important to have the cluster manager, the steering group connecting with industry continuously.

You don’t run a cluster from the office. You run a cluster by being on the road and by being with the companies. So, listening to them and providing that value all the time.

All the time saying, “What do you need? What do you want? What can we do and deliver?” or else they will lose interest. So, it is dynamic and adaptable, and it has to move with the times. You can’t be here saying, “10 years ago we decided on something, and we are still doing that”. It doesn’t work, because industry moves too fast, as well as the country. We have to move with it, and we are doing so.

Madeline Arkins:

Yes, it certainly seems that way. I think Ireland is such an unfortunate example of the brain drain that happens with people not even moving to different regions but moving to entirely different countries. And to see a cluster like this, that is so steadfast in its mission to change that is really great to see.  

On the continuous connecting within the cluster, you said the engagement can differ between stakeholders involved. What has worked well in building and maintaining that involvement over time? If you could pinpoint any one thing in particular to this approach.

Frances Hardiman:

There are a few. Sometimes it depends on the company. You can have a small SME or a micro company with 10 employees which can see the value or the interest in it and they will want in. And you will find the company very involved, and it is surprising to see someone who is running a whole company on their own being so involved. On the other hand, you can have a large company with a thousand employees, who are so busy that they don’t get as involved. It really depends on the company and their interests.

And that is why credibility, and added value add are important. You are not going to the door to say, “Are you in? Are you interested? What do you need? What do you want?”. You have to have an inside hook. There needs to be someone within the company that wants to do this, someone at a senior level that wants to do this. Because I can go to an engineer working on the floor of a manufacturing company and he would say, “This is great. I love this. This is brilliant, but I can’t get released to do this.” So, we go to the director and the senior team to say, “Are you interested in this?”. And if they are, then you can assign a champion. You can have someone that is connecting in, but you do need to release that person. The key thing is getting in to the right person within the company.

We find that it is funny that the smaller companies can be more engaged. The larger ones, not always, absolutely not always. So, there is a mix there. That cluster manager is very important, as that team in the office that is connecting in.

What really helps is providing low-hanging fruit wins. Provide a win at an early stage, even if it is something small. We run a careers day here within the college where I sit. This day is for engineering only, and it is for members only. We ran one recently in October and we had about 40 or 50 companies. The key thing for the company is that recruitment is expensive. You can go to a lot of open days and kids come in and out and they are interested, but not really interested. Well, I am going to bring down a hundred engineers, and I am going to get them CV-ready, and I am going to put them in front of you.

And when they come down, you have a chance to sell your wares. If you are a small company and you have other big companies, they swoop because students say, “Oh, I know them. They look great. I would love to work for them”. But there is a lovely company two kilometers down the road. Why don’t you work for them? They would say, “I have never heard of them. I don’t know who they are”. It gives them a chance to sell.

And what is a huge win is when a smaller company, a local company, hire a graduate or hire a work placement student. That is a big win for them when they are in a very expensive recruitment and noisy recruitment market, because there is such a deficit here. And as you said, brain drain with students leaving as well. They want to go to the bigger cities, and they want to move out. It is real value to that company to say, “I got someone, and all I did was turn up for free to a careers day that you put on for me by clustering.” It is a local team approach.

So easy wins, low-hanging fruit. And once they get early wins, they are going, “Okay, I like this. This works for me. I am winning from this.” And then we bring in bigger projects. An example of that would be when we have a big research project and a company says, “Look, we don’t really do research. We would like to do, but we don’t know what it is”. And we bring them into the project, and we do so slowly, and we educate them as they go along. And that to them is a win to say, “I am now part of a multi stakeholder project worth significant funding that is developing a technology for my company”. They are winning from that perspective, which I think is really important. Early wins bring you along.

Madeline Arkins:

Exactly. And particularly with getting a graduate involved, it is like the snowball effect of one person getting a job somewhere and then being a spokesperson for a testimonial is particularly important in a country like Ireland where we all love to gossip. I think that is really crucial. I can definitely see how that is not only a low-hanging fruit but also a win for the future.

In terms of other benefits that you have seen across being involved in this cluster, what are some of the benefits you have noticed? Any ones that maybe took you by surprise? Either for the university or for the region.

Frances Hardiman:

For myself, I suppose there are benefits here if you look at it from, “Why bother?”. I spoke about industry for quite a while there, about what industry would get out of it. But what do I get out of it? For their careers day, I get my students placed. I have all these students and all these work placement programs, and they need to be placed. So, they all get placed, which is fantastic.

The second thing is when I am applying for research funding and looking for equipment, capital investment… a lot of it will require you to have industry input into these, and you need letters of support or similar. And I find that that can draw on the cluster very quickly. I will get you five companies, no problem. And they will make an investment. They are very good and very supportive, and they will row behind you.

Another side as well is it makes sure that we are not disconnected. So, I know what is going on and I know the technology that they are developing, and you get a sense of if there are changes in the market. So, you can be talking to a company, or in a steering group meeting or whatever it is, and you will get a feel for it and say, “You know what? That is a little bit out of date. We have moved on since then, and this is what is coming down the line”. And for us, especially from an engineering technology perspective, we need to keep our finger on the pulse, and that helps us do that, to know what is coming and what is not.

The other side is that a lot of industry are involved in our program development. We don’t develop a program here without industry input. So once again, the cluster, to be fair, steps up a lot to say, “Look, I can help you with that. I can help design that. I can be part of that”. So, they are wins for us. It is a real win for us. And that is why we look after us, and nurture us, and drive us. Because we see a huge benefit. And for us as a university, in particular SETU, our whole strategy is connecting for impact in the region. That is the whole point of it.

And this is a great example to say, we can do this, and we are doing this. It is a case study, if you like, of how it can be done in another discipline area. To be able to call upon a hundred companies. It is great to be able to do that and to show what we are doing. It keeps us real, and it keeps us connected.

Madeline Arkins:

You are absolutely right, in the context of engineering. I think there are certain sectors that maybe aren’t so hard pressed to always keep their pulse on changes in the market and recent developments, but that is not something you are afforded in engineering. So, I can understand that.

Let’s get to the point that everyone always loves to hear about. What are some of the sticking points, some of the challenges you have been faced or lessons learned, framing it in a more positive sense?

Frances Hardiman:

Oh, Madeline, it has been fantastic. No, there are no issues. Absolutely. I think we have been lucky in that we had a really good steering group, but I think if you get people that are really engaged and passionate about it as you are, it is really helpful.

You need to have people that also have influence. There is no point in sitting around the table with people that are coming in because they are interested, but there is no real influence, or they can’t add value. They can’t say, “Look, I can have a phone call here or I can check this”. So, you do need that.

One of the most difficult things is it is relentless. You have to keep going all the time. The cluster managers are very busy. They are very busy people, and they are going, and they are connecting all the time, and their experience of being out on the road. Even just getting memberships paid up and pulling invoices from companies that kind of day-to-day operational tasks. I know from other clusters, and speaking with the other educational outreach managers, there has been a lot of pain. You can see it around the table, and we can laugh about it, but there is pain when trying to get people involved and pushing that rock up a hill.

But I think the most important thing, and this has been a really important one, is the longevity of it. A cluster is normally funded for about seven years. It takes time. You seed it, you get to know what you can build trust in, and you build credibility. People are two or three years in, and they are still asking the question, “Do I want to do this? Do I want to be part of this?”. It is not a project; it is a long-term thing. So, it is not like a three-year-long SFI-funded research project. This is a long-term game. So, you must have the concepts. This is long term, so we have got to get it right at the start. We have got to get governance right. We have to have funding and our own self-financing; it needs to be sustainable.

So, to be fair to Enterprise Ireland, we had originally a few years funding and it was extended a year, then it was extended two years. And I have to give them that credit. They could see that a four-year funding doesn’t make a cluster, but now we have seven years of funding. And that has been really successful because we have to show the companies, since it is an industry-based cluster, that it is not a short-term thing. We are not going to pull you out. That is a really important message to get out there.

Another problem that I personally see is that there are other clusters forming, and you could have duplication. So, we have this cluster, and then I could hear of another one over here and another one over there. It could be another engineering one or another type. Or there might be announcements from the government saying, “We are going to do new national clusters”. And you are sitting there thinking, “There is already 13 of them which are nationally funded”.

So, it can get noisy. And as a company, you wonder, “Do I go to this one or should I be on this one? Am I missing out on this or what is it?”. So, you are trying to demonstrate that it is long-term, it is meaningful, and we want you to be part of it because it should be a win for you, while making sure that we are not duplicating.

That is what you asked at the very start, since it is important for the 13 clusters to work together. I think if there is another one starting, there will be others that are connected as well, because it just becomes a flooded market. Clustering is great, I would encourage more of it. Absolutely. But it is about how it is managed and the signals it is giving off. And there are only so many companies which will be pulled in different directions. People knock on the door, asking for you to join them. I think that could be a problem if you don’t have enough of a customer base, and Ireland is a small country.

From that perspective, it could be difficult. So, we are watching the landscape and keeping an eye on it. And at some point, I agree that maybe a cluster can run its course. We talk about the long term, but if you are not evolving and meeting the needs and developing, perhaps you need to totally evolve, or you need to merge with something else to form something different because needs have changed. I suppose it is dynamic.

Madeline Arkins:

Absolutely. I didn’t consider the relentlessness of always having to be competitive on the one hand, but equally to not want to duplicate efforts and differentiate yourself from the others but also be open to collaborating and learning from one another. I am sure it is a fine line to tread.

And equally, your point about funding and funding cycles and indeed project cycles I think it is something we heard even in our business group that we had two weeks ago. We had members of industry, and also some university members of UIIN came together to hypothesise about the intricacies of university-industry collaboration.

And project cycles are certainly one, and I think this is not necessarily a new thought, but just the difference in time horizons between universities and industry and how oftentimes funding cycles can exacerbate those differences. So, it is great to see that Enterprise Ireland gave such longevity to the cluster.

Maybe looking ahead, as we are on the topic of time, how do you see the cluster evolving in the next five to ten years? If you were to hypothesise what sort of opportunities and challenges lie ahead? If you are in this moment clairvoyant, Frances.

Frances Hardiman:

What we have seen so far, and what we have started to do is develop subclusters within the cluster because engineering in the seventies was quite a broad area. So, we are developing some subclusters that we would like to develop further. One of them is automation, for example. So, we have taken a few automation companies that, once again, wouldn’t work with each other, or wouldn’t know each other, or they might know each other, but are coming together, and they have recently developed an automation scholarship for students to study automation robotics here in SETU, which has just been launched. That is an example of an activity we never thought of. It wasn’t something that ever came up before. And it is coming from industry, so subclustering is definitely something to develop.

And we have four or five, maybe six subclusters, but it might be adequate to tailor those and bring them down to three or four core focus areas. With that as well comes getting funding for therm and putting a program of work for each of those subclusters and what that looks like. So that was something new that we did.

Another one for us at the moment, which is more important and prevalent for us here in the southeast, is the offshore wind sector. So, the southeast of Ireland is gearing itself up for offshore wind, and we have been approved in terms of planning for offshore wind, the so-known DMAPs. We are part of a larger group called the Southeast Offshore Wind Partnership, which is quite a unique name. But together we are working to develop the region, getting it ready for this new sector that is coming in.

So, there is a new industry that has never been here before. And my question for the cluster is, “How do we get companies to be part of that supply chain?”. So, this company is going to come in and they will be looking for welders and parts and widgets… There are companies within the cluster that have never built anything for that sector. So, how do you pivot into that? I think that is where the cluster can help in terms of a new sector coming in, and getting ready for that green sustainability, or 2030 targets.

They are coming at us fast. But they are really prevalent and preparing companies for that new sector and for meeting those goals and targets is definitely something in the future for us. So, I think it will be now that we are grounded. We have developed once again that the back to that credibility is tightening up on the subclusters.

It is moving in line with government policy and these new offshore wind in this case, or renewable energy, or in general sense the green agenda that we are moving, towards working with industry to get them prepared for the future. For example, we brought over experts from the Netherlands to train some leaders in the companies in offshore to instruct them into what it is about and doing more of that.

And as we advance as well, as SETU, we are a very young university, and as we develop and move into our next strategic plan, it is the same concept. What is our next step together? What I would like to see more of is a government funding called TRIs, which is specifically for industry research. 

It is university, but it is industry research, and we need to advance that, our research with industry. We are quite strong, but from a cluster perspective, not strong enough. And we do have a resource now; we have an industry research liaison hired and their job is to advance that. So, what I would like to see in the next five years is a real uplift in the number of companies within the cluster that are collaborating together on the research and innovation side of things.

It might be their core of business but developing technology for themselves and to bring them forward as the innovation. So, there will be the three things: the subcluster, the new sector and research and to put a lift on those over the next few years.

Madeline Arkins:

And Frances, just as you mentioned, it is astonishing to think that SETU has only been in operation as SETU since 2021.

Frances Hardiman:

Yes, 2022. So we are coming up to three years. We have done a lot in a few years, I have to say.

Madeline Arkins:

It is really impressive after a merger like that, as you said, across so many counties and institutions, to already find such alignment with industry and in terms of where you see it going. And also equally, as you said, to be in the forefront of that new sector in offshore wind.

Very exciting and lovely to hear that the Dutch are involved, since we are based in Amsterdam. They know what they are doing, generally. I know we are nearing the end of our chat, and I haven’t let you have a moment’s rest in all of this.

To bring everything we have talked about together, if you had to summarise to someone who is looking to adapt this to their own context, someone who thinks, “Oh, I would love to set up this kind of cluster approach in my city, in my region”. If you had to summarise the success factors of this multi stakeholder, cluster-based collaboration into one to three takeaways, what would they be for you?

Frances Hardiman:

The success factors, or I think I would call them the essentials. If you want to set something like this up, which anyone can do it, get ready for a lot of work and energy. If you are going to set it up within the university, for example, if that is what you have decided to do, that is where it is going to start, you will need to figure out a lot on the ground. You are talking to different people that you know, and you should have a general conversation to see if this is of interest to them.  

First, you need to float the idea for a little while before you start taking it up the chain, about whether we are going to do this or not. I think it is floating it around and starting that those conversations early.

The second thing is to get a clear understanding of what clustering is and what you want to do. What is the point of it? Is it just a network or what is it? You need to be clear about what the actual point of it is. And that is where you identify the needs and the pillars that we talked about at the very start. And you might just do that with 10 or 12 people around the table. It doesn’t have to be a big thing. Keep it small. Keep it open. Don’t be overly prescriptive with it. But be clear, “We want to do these three things”, even if it is just that.

Start with that and then you can start widening it out and inviting people to the conversation. But I think if you start an early conversation, have a little bit of floating ideas, have two or three things about what you want to do, and by you, I mean the 12 people around the table, not just you.

You need to hear the industry pain. You need to hear their voice about what they actually need, if it is going to be industry focused. It doesn’t have to be, but that could be the point. And then you are pushing it gently and you are watching it grow and develop. But if you don’t have your narrative, you should be able to put a one-page brochure, like an invitation to a company or an agency saying, “I want you involved”, they will read it and say, “What is this? Why am I doing this? What is the point of this? Who is running this? And what am I going to get out of this?”. And if you can’t put that on a page, you can’t sell it to anyone. You can’t bring anyone in, but also you don’t know really yourself what you want to do.

The worst thing you can do is go hard, develop, create this big network, get everyone involved, and then drop it. Your credibility as a university, and your own reputation, will be tarnished by that.

You build all this up and then you let it go. So, that is why it is slowly and carefully. You don’t need 100 members. You can start with the 10, do something meaningful, get some wins out of it, and once they are comfortable and you are rolling along, then bring in another few and another few.

So, it isn’t clickbaiting, lights, and having a hundred people and all these figures. It is better to have something small with 10 companies or people or stakeholders that get something meaningful out of it, rather than having something too big. But it is long term, and you have to demonstrate value for this long term.

So, my three takeaways. One, start small, understand what you are going to do. Two, you need good governance. Someone is doing this. Someone is managing it. In my case, I am the PI, but I work with two or three of us, and together, we manage it. Hail, rain or snow. It doesn’t matter if the company is in or out, there are three or four of us that manage this all the time. I think about this cluster all the time. As PI, I have to manage it.

And three, it needs to bring value to each stakeholder, yourself included. So, as a university, I should be able to say to my own president, “This is why we are doing this”. And they should go, “I get this. This makes sense. This is fantastic”. If I can’t do this, why am I doing this? Why are we wasting energy on this? What is the point? And every company does the same. So, it needs that value.

If you have those three things you will go a long way with us. But of course, everything needs money. And we have talked about it. What do we do if we have no funding? I know my seven colleagues, we see it as part of our job, we just do it. But you do need to pay a cluster manager or education outreach officer to actually get on the road. You need an administrator; you need that kind of support. So, if you are going to be meaningful, it does have to be self-financing. 

The same as any business, the same as any organisation, you are treating it like that.

Madeline Arkins:

Frances, before we had this conversation, I didn’t think that I would be setting up a cluster, but I have taken extensive notes, and it appears this will be my next career pivot. That was really comprehensive. Thanks so much for giving your time today. We are just about out of time.

Frances, for those who are interested, where can they find out more about Engineering the South East cluster or if they want to get in contact with you?

Frances Hardiman:

Yeah, they can look up the website. We have a website, but you can also contact our cluster manager/educational outreach officer, whose email is stephen.rooney@setu.ie. And Stephen would be great to talk to just if you want tips or anything like that, because, you know, he is on the ground, he is running it every day, and he could give a different view of what I am saying. Where I say it is fabulous, he is saying, “Oh, it is tough”.

You can connect in there and I can give you details as well if you want to post anything. But we have a website of the Engineering the Southeast cluster and you will see the kind of thing that we do and as I say, it is only one of 13 clusters.

All of them are fabulous and if you want to see little differences, we can connect you in with any of the clusters and introduce them to you. If you have an area that you are interested in, rather than engineering, something totally different, there are other ones. So, we are happy to connect, and they would be only delighted.

Madeline Arkins:

Great. Stephen is going to be overrun with emails now.

Thanks so much Francis, again, for your time. And hope to see you again soon, hope to see you at our conference in Amsterdam this year.

Frances Hardiman:

I will be there. We are going to go. Thank you for the chat. Thanks everyone. All the best.

Madeline Arkins:

Thanks everyone.

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